diff ~/p/derek-sivers ~/p/patrick-mckenzie

Derek Sivers vs Patrick McKenzie

Products, revenue & stack compared side by side.

Derek Sivers

Musician who accidentally built CD Baby, sold it for $22M, and writes books on how to live

@sivers New Zealand

Patrick McKenzie

patio11: Bingo Card Creator, Appointment Reminder, Stripe Atlas and Bits about Money

@patio11 United States

Derek Sivers vs Patrick McKenzie at a glance

Both Derek Sivers and Patrick McKenzie are bootstrapped solo founders and have sold at least one product. They overlap in Creators & Writers and Educators & Course Creators. Derek is based in New Zealand, Patrick in Chicago, United States. Derek started in 1997 and Patrick in 2006. Derek Sivers has 3 products listed on IndieMakerList vs Patrick McKenzie's 5. Derek has sold 2 products and Patrick the same number. Patrick self-reports ~$275K/yr sales, ~$200K profit (excl. Appointment Reminder) (as of 2012); Derek hasn't shared a revenue figure publicly. On X, Derek has about 286K followers and Patrick about 201K.

Side-by-side comparison

Based in: Derek Sivers: New Zealand; Patrick McKenzie: Chicago, United States
Started: Derek Sivers: 1997 (29 yrs indie); Patrick McKenzie: 2006 (20 yrs indie)
Revenue (self-reported): Derek Sivers: Not public; Patrick McKenzie: ~$275K/yr sales, ~$200K profit (excl. Appointment Reminder)self-reported, as of 2012 · source for Patrick McKenzie's revenue
Products listed: Derek Sivers: 3; Patrick McKenzie: 5
Product status: Derek Sivers: 0 active · 2 acquired · 1 shut down; Patrick McKenzie: 2 active · 2 acquired · 1 shut down
X followers: Derek Sivers: 286K; Patrick McKenzie: 201K
Categories: Derek Sivers: Creators & Writers E-commerce Educators & Course Creators; Patrick McKenzie: SaaS Founders Creators & Writers Fintech & Payments Educators & Course Creators
Style: Derek Sivers: solobootstrappedexited; Patrick McKenzie: solobootstrappedbuilds in publicexited
Courses & resources: Derek Sivers: 6; Patrick McKenzie: 5

Revenue figures are self-reported by each maker and not audited; dates and scope differ. Highlighted categories are shared by both.

Tech stack

No tools in common in their publicly listed stacks. See the indie maker tech stack.

Derek Sivers

RubyPostgreSQLOpenBSDVim

Patrick McKenzie

Ruby on RailsTwilioStripe

How they build

Derek Sivers

Hell yeah or no: if you're not wildly excited about something, say no.
Business is about serving people, not chasing growth; make it a utopia for your customers.
Don't need money? Then optimize for freedom and learning instead.
Start tiny and stay focused on one thing at a time.
Be tech-independent — prefer open, self-hosted tools you control.

Patrick McKenzie

Charge more — most software businesses dramatically underprice.
SaaS is the best business model ever invented for software.
Being a better marketer than most engineers (and vice versa) is a superpower.
Write prolifically and in public; generous writing compounds into opportunity.
Keep a low personal burn rate so a small business can sustain you indefinitely.

Learn from Derek and Patrick

Derek Sivers

Patrick McKenzie

[newsletter] Bits about Money
[podcast] Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie
[template] Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued
[course] Lifecycle Emails course
[template] Start here if you're new

Derek Sivers vs Patrick McKenzie FAQ

Who makes more money, Derek Sivers or Patrick McKenzie?

Patrick McKenzie self-reports ~$275K/yr sales, ~$200K profit (excl. Appointment Reminder) (as of 2012). Derek Sivers' revenue is not public, so a direct comparison isn't possible.

Who has built more products, Derek Sivers or Patrick McKenzie?

Derek Sivers has 3 products listed (CD Baby, HostBaby and Wood Egg); Patrick McKenzie has 5 products listed (including Bingo Card Creator, Appointment Reminder and Starfighter).